[affs-project] ideas etc

[MJ Ray]

On 2023-09-09 02:46:24 +0100 Kirsten Naylor <wildduck at wildduck.org.uk> 
wrote:
> also apparently a first class honours degree in showing off and being
> cryptic

You can't ever please some people.
> and also actively trying to make everyone else feel stupid.

No, it's trying to do the opposite. I figure most people have at least 
seen the ideas of mean and standard deviation in their school maths 
and have some idea how to get them out of a scientific calculator or 
something like gnumeric. I was trying to show how just those two 
illustrate what I've been saying: the data we have is not enough to 
decide this reliably.
> [...] or you didn't, in which case you were well within
> your rights as a volunteer to merely say to somebody else "I notice 
> this
> needs doing, and I think it ought to be do because of X reason, but I
> can't do it myself, would you mind helping out" and then leaving
> everyone else to take care of it if they think it is important enough.

You say that, but when I did take that approach, others say that is 
not useful and I need to be more flexible in my response to problems. 
I can't please everyone, so I might as well please myself.
In Oct 2003, I couldn't honestly say "can't" because I was able to do 
them: it was just annoying. Having to do a few unfun things is 
unavoidable, but when they could have been avoided easily by better 
preparation, it's annoying not to avoid them next time around. It's 
inconsiderate of people who don't do the unfun tasks to expect people 
to waste effort on the same avoidable task every time.
> That's the thing, you're frustrated that not all your suggestions are
> taken on board.

No, I'm frustrated because *NONE* of my suggestions for AFFS were 
seriously considered by those who can implement them, as far as I can 
tell.
> But there's no reason why all your personal suggestions
> should be acted on, just as there's no reason why anyone's suggestions

I'm not expecting all of them to be acted on, but it would be nice to 
see more serious consideration and less blatent ignoring. Lately, I 
try to make it clear when I know something from experience or expert 
advice. It took me a while to realise, but that is not "showing off" 
and if I don't do it, you can't tell easily whether I'm hypothesising 
or not. And if I'm clearly wrong, I'll admit I got it wrong. Promise.
> should be acted on, and it is no reason to get worked up, since you
> can't do anything about it.

Actually, that's what I'm being told about another troublesome project 
right now. I don't believe it there and I don't believe it here. It 
seems rather sick and twisted to use skills from recent AFFS-funded 
training to influence AFFS, but I will if needed.
> With AFFS the stand staff are volunteering their time and good will.  
> If
> they suck, it really is tough luck.  It's not like it's a business 
> where
> the manager can fire the stand staff for being crap.  [...]

I agree entirely. I figured a lot of that out working with volunteer 
media projects 92?-94 (radio) and 97-00 (web). I hope others realise 
it too.
>> Some 80 per cent of stand success is down to staff, so choose staff 
>> who 
>> want to be there,
> I don't think there are any unwilling AFFS stand volunteers

Yes, that should go without saying in this case.
>> train them on presentation skills
> Not applicable really without putting people off

Shouldn't force it, but could still offer it. Then people have a 
chance to learn new skills in return for helping out, if they've not 
already got them. Has to be done before it's too busy though, so the 
stand setup needs to be well-prepared in order to have time for this. 
I'd not thought of this before, AFAICR.
>> brief them on company objectives.
> Fair enough.  Just have some committee member who says to everyone 
> "can
> you do this please" and "can you do that please" so that everyone has 
> an
> idea of what they're doing.

In order to do that, the committee member has to have thought that 
through beforehand and everyone knowing it would help preparation, 
too.
>> They need to be enthusiastic and engage with visitors."
> Can't expect everyone to be able to do this.

No, this is another thing where people will try their best, but some 
people may work better on a particular day or event than others. If 
you have enough staff, it can probably help decide who is asked to 
remain on the stand and who is invited to do off-stand tasks when it's 
quiet.
>>> Hmmmmn, your asking me to trust marketing people? [...]
>> Far be it from me to question your experience.
> said in a disparaging manner :P

Wasn't meant that way. It was an odd response to the stereotype-based 
insult of a group containing a member of my family. One should read it 
and think "that's an odd reply" maybe wondering why the comment got an 
odd reply. At that time, to reply directly to Adam claiming someone 
that I trust so much is untrustworthy because of their work, I would 
probably have required large explosive devices and a targetting 
system. :-)
Anyway, it's definitely not useful for an AFFS list to be a publishing 
mechanism for marketer insults. We may have to work with them one day 
:-)

[the leaflet delivery]
> As I said before, either you wanted to do it or you didn't. [...]

Now you write that, I can see that part of the problem is that this 
was both: I wanted to help those running the stand by fulfilling 
Adam's reasonable request for leaflets; I didn't want to try 
delivering a heavy box to a vacant space with no-one I could contact 
knowing what was happening. If I had known the full details of the 
choice beforehand, I would have made the opposite decision. Poor 
communication kept that information from me, though.
-- 
MJR/slef    My Opinion Only and not of any group I know
  Creative copyleft computing - http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
www.thewalks.co.uk at stand 13, K.Lynn Carnival, 12 Sep